Why a digitally animated image of someone who has died can evoke curiosity, resistance and profound emotion at the same time.
LLi · LISETTE LUCAS INTERNATIONAL PODCAST · 220
Innovation: the role of Deepfake Therapy and mediumship in The New Grieving, with Leoniek van der Maarel
Grief therapist and psychologist Leoniek van der Maarel and Lisette Lucas explore what Deepfake Therapy may open in grief support, how mediumship can add a perceptive layer and which ethical boundaries must remain non-negotiable.
17 April 202434:24English editorial · Dutch audio
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English editorial translation of the original Dutch episode. The embedded recording and linked audio remain in Dutch.
PODCAST VIDEO
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THE CORE IN ONE MINUTE
What does responsible innovation in grief support require?
New technology only becomes meaningful when human dignity, informed consent and professional guidance define the frame. Leoniek describes Deepfake Therapy not as a complete therapy, but as one carefully supported conversation around unfinished business. The image, the therapeutic context and any mediumistic perception must remain clearly distinguished. That combination of openness and critical evaluation creates room for innovation without losing sight of the grieving person.
IN THIS EPISODE
No more noise. A clearer distinction.
How Leoniek integrates intuitive and mediumistic information with restraint and professional discernment in her work with bereaved people.
Why Leoniek frames Deepfake Therapy as one supported conversation rather than a method that replaces grief therapy.
How consent, screening, privacy, aftercare and continued critical research shape responsible uses of AI in grief support.
From expertise to a new layer of perception
Leoniek already had decades of experience as a grief therapist, psychologist, author and educator when she discovered Lisette's podcast. Her training within EnergyJoy helped her stop dismissing intuitive signals and instead evaluate whether they were relevant to the client.
I learned to take it seriously instead of assuming it was only in my head.
Why unfinished business can carry such weight
Guilt, regret and words left unsaid can continue to shape grief. Visualisation, an empty chair or a letter have long been used to support an inner conversation. Leoniek saw animated imagery as a possible next layer, not a replacement for grieving but a carefully bounded moment within it.
The image is not the person who died
Transparency is essential. The participant knows that a submitted photograph is digitally transformed into moving imagery and that a therapist and, at times, a medium are involved. The encounter may feel emotionally real while the technical image and professional roles remain clearly named.
We are open and transparent: people know how the image is made and who is involved.
Integrating mediumship quietly
Leoniek does not enter a therapy session by foregrounding herself as a medium. When she perceives something, she introduces it tentatively and keeps it open to verification. The client retains authority over what does and does not resonate.
Ethics begins before the experience
Free choice, careful screening, privacy, guidance during the conversation and follow-up contact are necessary conditions in Leoniek's view. She does not proactively introduce Deepfake Therapy to her regular therapy clients, precisely to avoid influence from the therapeutic relationship.
I want it to take place with guidance, so I can keep a close eye on what is happening.
The New Grieving requires mature discernment
The collaboration around the NTR science documentary FOCUS brought both the potential and the tension of AI in grief into public view. Leoniek does not argue for uncritical adoption, but for research, professional boundaries and trust in human resilience.
Keep an open mind, keep asking the important questions and do not dismiss it without examination.
PERSONAL REFLECTION
What do you already know?
- Where does innovation in your own profession require both an open mind and a firmer ethical boundary?
- Which information genuinely serves a person, and which information should consciously remain with the professional?
- How do you protect transparency when technology, therapy and human perception meet?
EDITORIAL TRANSCRIPT TRANSLATION · EN
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A transparent editorial translation of selected passages from the Dutch recording. It is not presented as a separate English audio edition.
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Leoniek shares how she discovered Lisette's podcast, then realised they worked in the same building and took that moment as an invitation to develop her own perceptive capacity further.
Her training gave her permission to take intuitive images and signals seriously, stay with them and only then decide whether they held meaning for the client.
In her work with bereaved people, Leoniek uses mediumistic perception with restraint. She offers a possible perspective, checks it with the client and lets their response reveal whether anything genuinely opens.
Leoniek does not describe Deepfake Therapy as a complete therapy. It is one supported conversation intended to explore unfinished business, not to maintain an ongoing digital bond with someone who has died.
Consent alone is not enough. Leoniek also identifies screening, privacy, professional presence during the experience and follow-up care as conditions for responsible practice.
Technology is moving faster than professional frameworks. Leoniek therefore calls for research and clear guidance, leaving room for critical questions as well as trust in human resilience.
CONTINUE WITH THE GUEST
Discover Leoniek van der Maarel's work.
Discover Leoniek's work as a grief therapist, psychologist, author and founder of Academie voor Verlies.
ABOUT THE HOST
Lisette Lucas
HIGH END SUCCESS MEDIUM® · HIGH FREQUENCY BUSINESS MENTOR
Lisette is the leader for leaders who have built a great deal, yet lost full access to their own signal along the way. As creator of Perceptive Intelligence™ and founder of Inner-Medium™ for Leaders, she helps leaders restore inner authority and translate it into clear decisions, visibility, business and impact.
Meet LisetteYOUR NEXT MOVEMENT
You no longer need to abandon yourself in order to keep growing.
Explore during a personal Soul Connection Call where your own signal is being overridden, what is truly at stake and whether Inner-Medium™ for Leaders is the right field for your next level.